Nutroot heartache
Seeking to move beyond what he calls a "a dark and painful chapter in our history," President Barack Obama said Thursday that CIA officials who used harsh interrogation tactics during the Bush administration will not be prosecuted.
...dark and painful chapter in our history? 9/11 - we would consider that "a dark and painful chapter in our history". Then again, he could've been speaking on behalf of the bad guys for whom many, no doubt, experienced some pain in the dark.
The President, though, made it up to the nutroots somewhat by giving up the interrogation playbook.
White House senior adviser David Axelrod says President Barack Obama spent about a month pondering whether to release Bush-era memos about CIA interrogation techniques, and considered it “a weighty decision.”
Links to pdfs of the CIA memos can be linked through Politico link above. You can learn all about the torture techniques we used and some we never did like the infamously brutal "caterpillar torture":
Justice Department lawyers said in a "top secret" memo to the CIA that they could place Abu Zubaydah, one of the highest-ranking members of Al Qaeda, in a cramped confinement box, and introduce insects into the box under the following conditions. An excerpt of the memo, dated Aug. 1, 2002, reads:
"As we understand it, you plan to inform Zubaydah that you are going to place a stinging insect into the box, but you will actually place a harmless insect in the box, such as a caterpillar.
If you do so, to ensure that you are outside the predicate act requirement, you must inform him that the insects will not have a sting that would produce death or severe pain.
If, however, you were to place the insect in the box without informing him that you are doing so, then, in order to not commit a predicate act, you should not affirmatively lead him to believe that any insect is present which has a sting that could produce severe pain or suffering or even cause death. (material redacted with black lines here) so long as you take either of the approaches we have described, the insect’s placement in the box would not constitute a threat of severe physical pain or suffering to a reasonable person in his position."
The tactic ultimately was not used.
You know what's really torture? Reading the legalese that ensures the civil liberties of these bums.
H/T: Sweetness and Light and Instapundit
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4 comments:
You mean the bums that haven't had a day in court to determine innoncence or guilt?
That haven't been allowed to examine evidence?
The bums that were so bum-esque at first blush that the Dubya Administration would end up letting many of them go after application of said techniques when it was finally determined (like some latter-day witch drowning technique) they really were caught up in a bad rap -- and then have them turn from innocents into pissed off brand new members of Al Qaeda with a legit axe to grind?
Those bums?
- Mongo Wonders When the Neo-Cons Will Finally Get The Concept of Unintended Consequences Having Actual Consequences, Sometimes Ten-fold
Wow, Mongo. Didn't realize you were one of those.
If you are referring to the bums upon whom we didn't employ the dreaded "caterpillar torture" and all 3 upon whom we gave an inverted showers to then, yes, those would be the bums I am referring to.
Sleep tight. I know I am.
The only thing to wake up Mr. Lloyd and those of like mind, is to be in imminent danger.
We put our own special ops troops through similar interogation techniques as a consequence of failing SEER (survival, escape, evasion, resistance)courses.
This is very harsh, but not lethal.
I bet it would be better to Mr. Lloyd if Americans or innocents were murdered, as long as we don't simulate drowning to acquire info for prevention.
Oh, it pissed off the decapitating terrorists. The same ones that view womem as chattel? Legit axe to grind?
Hoping Mr. Lloyd will visit the Talaban real soon with his mother/ sister.
Dawg, you posted some weak-ass crap before. But that comment you left just takes the taco right there. It's dissappointing, because every once in a blue moon you have insights that show promise.
I didn't figure you to resort to the modern-day form of the "If you don't like it, you can just go live in the Soviet Union" card.
It's when you come down to that level, that I KNOW I'm right.
At any rate, please do some reading beyond "National Review" -- If for no other reason that to learn how to spell T-a-l-i-b-a-n correctly.
Do you know how we got the lion's share of those guys we initially detained? Here's a typical scenario:
American troops or CIA operative walks into Afghan village. Says, Greeting sir. Do you happen to know where any Al Qaeda or Taliban reside? I will happily pay you the sum of $1,000 cash for information leading to the capture of each combatant.
Now the monetarily dirt poor villager (Who just as easily could have been shooting at said American trooper half hour before) says, "Well, gee. Let me think. Why, yes! Yes, I do! There is Akhem in Adinoir Village. Barran in Bhork Village. And Crevanh in Cadaskh Village. They hate the West, and think America is the devil".
Our Afghan villager has now made himself $3,000 for pointing out our sworn enemy.
Only problem is, he was lying his ass off.
The only thing Akhem, Barran, and Crevanh have ever done is beat our Afghan villager friend's dog in the provincial dog fights. Our Afghan friend swears up and down to his friends and family they must have cheated. Such trivial things are often how life-long blood feuds erupt among Afghan tribes and even family members.
Next thing you know, Afghans A, B, and C, tending their flocks or crops, hours later have a black hood over their head and are sitting in the back of a C-130 with a one-way ticket to Gitmo.
Back in D.C., Cheney signs a memo that says, "Do these things" to these people -- and our forlorn friends are then subjected to conditions that we have fought against as Americans ever since this nation was founded.
Oh, and those Special Forces that you cite, Dawg, THOSE are the folks that have to pay price for the Dubya Administration's short-sighted Burning Ants With The Magnifying Glass Approach when they are captured in future conflict -- or even the current ones. They, and the rank and file American soldier.
Anybody that knows me knows that hard-core Taliban elements get no love from this quarter. But it has to be the actual Taliban or Al Qaeda from verified sources that takes the hit. And when they take the hit, let it be swift, and just. That way, we are still the America that is respected around the world, and our military stays the professional force we are fiercely proud of.
I know those of your "like mind", Dawg, just want to take the "Let's nuke 'em" approach -- and that certainly would take away the threat of "imminent danger". No question about it. But that's not what we are about. I still have faith that when we conduct ourselves properly, the world recognizes us as the leader and the envy of our little planet. In such a case, Al Qaeda withers and dies.
So, in closing, may I suggest if you want to live in a nation that supports torture, that it be you that takes a flight to any of a dozen different countries -- with or without your mother.
Us Americans are just a little bit better than that.
- Mongo LIVID!
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